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Removing California Emissions Equipment? #52875 09/07/09 03:24 PM
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Az4x4 Offline OP
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Take a look at the following photo. Attached to the bike frame just forward of the engine is what looks to be an emissions canister required by the State of California where the bike was originally sold.



Am I mistaken in that identification or not? If not, can the canister be safely removed in Arizona without backlash either technically or legally? And would it be of benefit to do so?


..I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.. Dr. Phil
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: Az4x4] #52878 09/07/09 04:00 PM
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Chuck Offline
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not sure on the legality of removing the cannister but removing it shoudl be as simple as pulling it off and capping off the lines that were running into it

Not sure what the benefits to removing it would be, other than "Emissions Control BAD"


2007 XT225 Bone Stock
Not so fat guy on a little bike
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: Chuck] #52883 09/07/09 06:37 PM
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Az4x4 Offline OP
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Thanks Chuck. Like you I don't know if removing the canister actually helps or not. Guess I'll have to break down and Google it to see what others have to say.


..I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.. Dr. Phil
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: Az4x4] #52885 09/07/09 07:35 PM
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Az4x4 Offline OP
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From the SouthBayRiders web site, quoting AlanRider7, the following pretty much sums up where I now am in respect to the question of removing emissions equipment:

Originally Posted By: AlanRider7
Removing smog related equipment from your motorcycle is a waste of time. You gain ZERO in performance and ZERO from the perceived weight reduction. Yet, a lot of Ricky Racers chop the smog system on their bikes right away. It's pretty ignorant when you think about it. Evaporating gasoline is a serious pollutant. The charcoal canister keeps your bike from making our air worse when the bike is parked. When it's running, the evaporative emissions are drawn into the intake of the bike and burned with the air fuel mixture.

There are no 'problems' with charcoal canisters that require them to be removed. Those who advocate removing emissions related equipment are not design engineers and their opinions mean about as much as the pizza deliveryman's thoughts on the subject.

What I see a lot of is hacks who think they know what they're doing go in with a hatchet and butcher hoses and create vacuum leaks and tank venting problems that cause all sorts of trouble needlessly. Yup. It sure runs better..... right up to where it stops running.

Put the axe down and step away from the motorcycle.

Please.


Another poster, Looscruz, had this to say:

Originally Posted By: Looscruz
...In my view, there are only three valid reasons to remove these systems from a motorbike:

1. Weight savings for all-out racing
2. Aesthetics (some are visibly hideous)
3. Storage (when canisters are mounted in underseat storage compartments. WTF is up with that anyway?)

The most common reason for tampering, though, is innocent, functional ignorance.

In my view, none of these reasons trumps the consequence of significant added pollution.

And a side note: If--god forbid--the state ever does pass a motorcycle smog check program, all those street bikes with tampered EVAP systems may not be certifiable until the system is restored. That's really gonna suck.


Pending anyone coming up with a better argument to the contrary, I think I'll leave the emissions canister and associated plumbing alone! Besides, someone suggested the canister itself can easily be disguised with a "NOS" sticker, making heads turn!


..I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.. Dr. Phil
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: Az4x4] #52894 09/07/09 11:24 PM
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boinkman Offline
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thanks for your post and thanks for the research. when i got my xt the first thing i wondered was, can i take that emissions crap off without messing anything up? i came to the conclusion that looscruz did that it wasn't worth the trouble and could be a problem in the future. the emissions tank on the xt is not heavy enough to warrent removal. great idea about the NOS sticker.


"He still drank ... but only in church and never as much."
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: boinkman] #52903 09/08/09 05:08 AM
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I am not a hack or a butcher. I am a trained mechanic with 32 years experience. I have removed ALL the emissions controls from every motorcycle I have ever owned, as well as all the safety devices, like the sidestand switch, the switch that prevents it from starting in gear, and the switch that prevents it from starting without the clutch being pulled in. All that stuff on my Vulcan 1500 streetbike DID weigh over 22 pounds, but it also included a very complex air injection system.


We do have emissions tests here, I live in the only county in the U.S. that does. I have NEVER had any problems getting any of my bikes through the emissions test EXCEPT the XT, and that came without any emissions equipment. Turned out to be a carburetor issue.


First of all, I hate the EPA, second, I hate emissions equipment, which is just needless clutter on bikes. A charcoal cannister? I use gasoline in an open container to clean parts. I like my bikes to be free of anything that doesn't either serve a purpose, or look good. Emissions crap and "safety" switches do neither, and are just in the way. Removing this "JUNK" will not likely make your bike run any better, but it won't run any worse either. And at least you will be able to fill your gas tank all the way full without also filling up the damn charcoal cannister, and causing starting and running problems.



Neither my 1964 Ford Fairlane, nor my 1975 Ford F250 truck came from the factory with any kind of emissions controls, the Fairlane is old enough to be exempt from emissions tests, and the truck passes just fine. I will never buy a late model car or truck covered up in computerized electronics and emissions garbage. As a mechanic, I had to work on this trash, which is one reason I am no longer a paid professional mechanic. Sorry if I got a little carried away, I am a classic vehicle enthusiast, and this is something I am very passionate about. Jerry.


The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
1994/2001 custom built XT225 with a ton of aftermarket parts.



Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: JerryH] #52908 09/08/09 05:45 AM
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boinkman Offline
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jerry. i drive a 1970 chevrolet big block with dual exhaust and there is no way it would ever pass smog in califronia. love those oldies but goodies, but fuel prompted me to rethink and buy the xt. even with the carb and exhaust mods it still gets 75mpg unlike my truck that gets 9.


"He still drank ... but only in church and never as much."
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: boinkman] #52915 09/08/09 02:02 PM
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My '75 F250 has a 390 four barrel, and a dual exhaust. It also gets about 9 mpg. The Fairlane is a 200ci straight 6, and gets about 18 mpg. I bought the truck mostly for hauling dirt bikes, quads, and occasionally borrow my in-laws boat and camp trailer.

Neither have A/C, although I plan on putting A/C in the Fairlane before next summer. Neither of them are show cars, they are daily drivers, but I wouldn't trade either one of them for a new one.


I am very much a purest when it comes to vehicles, and do not believe electronics and vehicles go together. Electronics are extremely failure prone, and problems cannot be diagnosed without $10,000 worth of computerized diagnostic equipment.


I also like the fact that they do not have EFI, catalytic converters, EGR valves, air injection, air bags, plastic bumpers, designed in self destruct zones, etc.


It makes me sad to see the same thing that happened to cars now happening to motorcycles.


This new technology has it's place, I just don't believe vehicles is the place for it. Jerry.


The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
1994/2001 custom built XT225 with a ton of aftermarket parts.



Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: JerryH] #52918 09/08/09 03:36 PM
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Ben Offline
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luddites of the world unite


2007 serow 250 from new, now gone to a new home. 2022 Gasgas EC300
Re: Removing California Emissions Equipment? [Re: JerryH] #52919 09/08/09 03:48 PM
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Az4x4 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: JerryH
...Removing this "JUNK" [emissions equipment] will not likely make your bike run any better, but it won't run any worse either...


Like yourself Jerry, many people are passionate about whatever side of this [or any other] issue they settle on. However in this case, once we get to the heart of your argument in behalf of stripping out all vestiges of emissions equipment, your admission that doing so won't effect the way the bike runs one way or the other is most noteworthy - and pretty much aligns with everything else I've read from both sides of the aisle.

Also like yourself, I too owned and drove old Ford pickups. In my case my favorite was a 1968 F100 with a granny gear four speed and a 390 V-8. Traded for that truck in 1970 with 35,000 miles on it and drove it every day for the next 17 years. Did every bit of work necessary on it myself; tune-ups, carburetors, clutches, U-joints, axle bearings, drive shafts, etc., etc. Having nothing in the way of emissions equipment to contend with was just the way things were in those days, and none of us ever thought we'd see the day when such things along with computer chips and advanced electronics would come to be standard issue in vehicles.

But that was then and this is now. And as long as these technologies help to reduce pollution and keep our vehicles running better and cleaner than they otherwise would, for my part I'll work with them and not against them.

As far as the XT is concerned, since even the most strident anti-emissions equipment advocates admit that the simple charcoal canister evap system used on it is not adding to or detracting from the way the bike runs, I won't strip the system off in that case.


..I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.. Dr. Phil
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