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#98702 - 07/03/12 10:34 PM timing marks
rohnstad Offline
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Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Patagonia, AZ
The official Yamaha Shop Manual talks about lining up the "T" mark with the stationary mark on the crankcase cover. My problem is none of the vertical marks on the rotor has a "T" alongside of it. So which of the 3 vertical marks do I use - the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?

Thanks,
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Rich in Patagonia, 67 YM-1, 02 FZ1, 09 KLX250
04 XT225 - it's gone now

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#98708 - 07/03/12 11:58 PM Re: timing marks [Re: rohnstad]
JerryH Offline
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Registered: 12/19/08
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Loc: Chandler, AZ 85224
If this is for adjusting the valves, you don't need to worry about timing marks. Just remove the valve covers, turn the engine over with a socket, and watch the valves go up and down. When the adjuster is "up" which means the valve is closed, you will feel some play in it. This is where you adjust the clearance. The marks do not have to be lined up, you will notice the valve is closed for some time.
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The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
'01 XT225 street '94 XT225 mostly dirt




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#98750 - 07/04/12 08:04 PM Re: timing marks [Re: JerryH]
rohnstad Offline
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Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Patagonia, AZ
Jerry, thank you for taking the time to respond, but I'm a little too anal about valve clearances to use your technique.


Edited by rohnstad (07/04/12 08:05 PM)
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Rich in Patagonia, 67 YM-1, 02 FZ1, 09 KLX250
04 XT225 - it's gone now

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#98778 - 07/05/12 05:45 AM Re: timing marks [Re: rohnstad]
alexd Online   content
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4256
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: rohnstad
Jerry, thank you for taking the time to respond, but I'm a little too anal about valve clearances to use your technique.


You're wise.

He can do it, and I and many others here can do it, but for him to advise others to use his "technique" instead of using the Timing mark, is to risk problems for their engines.

He likes to run his valve clearances at maximum open specs anyway. And, if someone uses his "technique" they might mistakenly run increased valve clearances, much more than they intend...resulting in loss of power and possible increased wear...something Jerry doesn't care about.

Alexd


Edited by alexd (07/05/12 05:46 AM)
_________________________
(one) 2006 XT225, (two) 2005 XT225, 2006 FZ1

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#98786 - 07/05/12 02:59 PM Re: timing marks [Re: alexd]
rohnstad Offline
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Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 166
Loc: Patagonia, AZ
On both my brother's '02 and my '04 there is no "T" along side any of the 3 marks. I ended up using the middle mark on both bikes.

The suggested alternative kind of reminds me of the way I use to set timing on cars: Listen for the optimal rpm as you changed the timing advance, and if under load that didn't cause pinging, you had it at the sweet spot. I think. :-)


Edited by rohnstad (07/05/12 02:59 PM)
_________________________
Rich in Patagonia, 67 YM-1, 02 FZ1, 09 KLX250
04 XT225 - it's gone now

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#98809 - 07/06/12 02:49 AM Re: timing marks [Re: rohnstad]
JerryH Offline
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Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 1508
Loc: Chandler, AZ 85224
That is the correct way of setting timing on older non computerized cars. Floor the pedal, and if you hear a lot of pinging under hard acceleration, stop, get out, and retard the timing a little bit. Do this until you can just barely hear any pinging on hard acceleration, and you should be dead on. Watch your temperature gauge, and for "dieseling" when you shut the engine off. You might have to fine tune it a bit. You CANNOT use a timing light to set timing on older cars today. They were designed to run on "real" gas, and the low octane ethanol crap they sell for gas today will cause serious damage to an old car set to stock specs. In my '64, I even mix 2 stroke marine oil to the gas to help lubricate the valves. I can get it by the gallon locally, or in 5 gallon jugs at a lake 40 miles away.


As for the valves, nothing wrong with doing it by the book, it just takes a bit longer, and for me it is no more accurate. I make real sure my valve clearances are not over the loose end of spec. I have NEVER had them get looser.
_________________________
The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
'01 XT225 street '94 XT225 mostly dirt




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#98819 - 07/06/12 06:02 AM Re: timing marks [Re: JerryH]
alexd Online   content
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4256
Loc: Illinois, USA

No one was talking about IGNITION TIMING or CARS.

And, you continue to suggest improper techniques to novices, which is why in many instances you're a danger on this Site.

Alexd
_________________________
(one) 2006 XT225, (two) 2005 XT225, 2006 FZ1

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#98841 - 07/06/12 05:03 PM Re: timing marks [Re: alexd]
JerryH Offline
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Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 1508
Loc: Chandler, AZ 85224
Yes someone was talking about setting ignition timing on cars.


"The suggested alternative kind of reminds me of the way I use to set TIMING on CARS: Listen for the optimal rpm as you changed the timing advance, and if under load that didn't cause pinging, you had it at the sweet spot. I think. :-)"


And as for my method of setting the valves, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Every motorcycle mechanic in the world does it that way. Do you really think when you take a bike to the dealer to get the valves adjusted they get down there and try to find that little oil covered mark?

At least I still use the feeler gauge as a "feeler" gauge. The accepted way of doing it these days is if you want to set a valve at .005, you set it to where the .005 gauge goes in, then try to put the .006 gauge in, if it won't go without considerable force, then the valve is considered to be at .005. I actually like feeling the correct drag on the gauge.


As for me being a "danger" on this site, remember this:

For the record Alexd you were the one that posted the cheapshot on this thread about Jerryh and his constant mis-information, and then act like you were doing us all a service by warning us of him. Thanks but I am a big boy. And don't tell me about protecting the new-comers (it does sound a little arrogant), they are perfectly capable of reading opposing "civil" views and making up their own minds -- That's called life.
All he did was post an observation -- Big deal. You just couldn't leave the grudge out of it and had to poke at it. There was nothing wrong with his post except you were still pissed at him.
_________________________
The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
'01 XT225 street '94 XT225 mostly dirt




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#98856 - 07/07/12 05:34 AM Re: timing marks [Re: JerryH]
alexd Online   content
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4256
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: JerryH
Yes someone was talking about setting ignition timing on cars.


That is correct...one comment, but not from the original poster, and not on subject.

Quote:

And as for my method of setting the valves, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Every motorcycle mechanic in the world does it that way. Do you really think when you take a bike to the dealer to get the valves adjusted they get down there and try to find that little oil covered mark?


And you...who never take your bike in for dealer service, are in a position to say this?! There are professionals out there; you haven't met them.

Quote:

At least I still use the feeler gauge as a "feeler" gauge. The accepted way of doing it these days is if you want to set a valve at .005, you set it to where the .005 gauge goes in, then try to put the .006 gauge in, if it won't go without considerable force, then the valve is considered to be at .005. I actually like feeling the correct drag on the gauge.


Not that this has anything to do with your short-cut that you're promoting.

Quote:

As for me being a "danger" on this site, remember this:

For the record Alexd you were the one that posted the cheapshot on this thread about Jerryh and his constant mis-information, and then act like you were doing us all a service by warning us of him. Thanks but I am a big boy. And don't tell me about protecting the new-comers (it does sound a little arrogant), they are perfectly capable of reading opposing "civil" views and making up their own minds -- That's called life.
All he did was post an observation -- Big deal. You just couldn't leave the grudge out of it and had to poke at it. There was nothing wrong with his post except you were still pissed at him.


Jerry, you're up to more than two dozen false/silly/ stupid/ignorant (and sometimes more than one)"observations," that I could easily list. You can always find a few "friends" that will chime in with support for you because of their wish to side with personalities and ignore facts. So much for their own problems, that they wish to inadvertantly display their insecurities. But, the point I've made repeatedly in the past is that there is no "grudge" that I'm working against you with. And, unlike you, I don't complain to moderators about "harrassment," or look for "pals" to take up my cause.

I react to BS and when you (occasionally) talk about experiences, places you've gone and enjoyed, etc. You'll never find me making a negative comment. But that's not your habit. So, as long as you contuinue promoting silly and wrong and possibly destructive ideas, I will continue to point that out and offer the alternative.

You and a few others can regard that as arrogant if you want, but it amuses me (and it should shame you) that I'm not regarded as WRONG by the critics. (And unlike you, the few times I am wrong, I'm the first to admit it).

Alexd


Edited by alexd (07/07/12 05:35 AM)
_________________________
(one) 2006 XT225, (two) 2005 XT225, 2006 FZ1

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#98882 - 07/07/12 04:38 PM Re: timing marks [Re: alexd]
JerryH Offline
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Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 1508
Loc: Chandler, AZ 85224
Your problem alexd, is that you can't simply post information, you have to call someone else's information wrong. You seem to think you are the forum police. (or maybe a hall monitor)You can post anything you want, I couldn't care less. It's your continuing to involve me in it that causes the trouble. People will decide for themselves how they want to do things, and who's information they decide to use. What someone else posts is none of your business.

I have been working on motorcycles for 47 years, and absolutely NOTHING I have ever posted has EVER caused any damage. I actually go well past what most people do to make sure things are done right. Just like using WD-40 on a chain, which you said was wrong, but actually isn't, everything I do has been proven by decades of use on my own bikes. Nevertheless, if someone wants to do it a different way, that's fine. There is usually more than one right way to do things. Some people are fussier than others about getting things right, but none moreso than me. I am, always have been, and always will be a perfectionist. My knowledge comes from experience, a lifetime of it, not from a book, or the latest "trendy" thing. Everything I do is based on solid principals.
_________________________
The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
'01 XT225 street '94 XT225 mostly dirt




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