Search

GREAT RIDES & STAYS!
Fab Ads
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Az4x4] #152012 08/01/21 09:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,308
Muniac Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,308
Your campground observations are echoed here in our state campgrounds. Basically mobbed as are most of our high country recreational assets. Now with high speed internet more available, people are working out of their campers. So rural areas aren't as rural as they used to be. We're having a wet Summer so far. Lots of damage from water all over.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Probably a $70k truck. Not sure what the county resources cost to clean it up.

Be safe out there.


Evolve & Simplify
Be There or Be Nowhere! A Few Adventures & Video
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: d2reid] #152016 08/02/21 08:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951
Az4x4 Offline OP
Platinum Member
*****
OP Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951

Originally Posted by d2reid
.......I am ashamed to say that I do not have any solutions. The only thing I can see to do is recycle, and leave no trace...

Like you, Dallas, I don't have solutions either. Recycling, given the limitations on that outwardly positive activity making a real difference in various parts of the country, at least it makes people 'feel' they're somehow doing good whether they actually are or not.

On the other hand leaving 'no trace' is at best a nebulous ideal. No individual or group can realistically 'leave no trace' wherever they go, whatever they do. They'll have an impact simply because they showed up someplace, which in times past didn't amount to much but today it's sadly a different story.

When America was young our country was seemingly limitless as far as an over abundance of natural resources and the opportunities they offered were concerned. In Arizona it seemed, at least to me having been born here and lived here the majority of my life, that these resources and opportunities remained much the same through my first 61 years, until roughly the turn of the century.

With the dawn of the 21st century long time residents slowly woke up to the huge influx of people moving into the state. Developers were building knock together lath and stucco neighborhoods, paving over ever more gigantic swatches of untouched desert and productive farm land faster than anyone could keep track.

Like Jerry noted, the small town feel we once enjoyed in the Valley has disappeared forever. Tempe, as I knew it from the early '60s when Deon and I got married and moved there from Phoenix, till I sold out a couple of years after Deon died in 2011 and moved north to the White Mountains, grew from a small college town of about 30,000 people, whose major tenant was Arizona State University, till it became the massively overcrowded and over built extension of the Valley of The Sun's unbelievably huge metro area that Tempe is today.

The eight years I worked as a police officer in Tempe, from '68 through '75, the city enjoyed a tight knit small town feel about it, with our department's "To Protect and To Serve" motto actually meaning something to citizens and officers alike. As one of 30 officers working for the city back then, the day to day 'protection and service' we offered our citizens was the polar opposite of the 'Us vs Them' militaristic, highly confrontational tactics that today's more than 300 sworn Tempe police officers are trained in and the city promotes.

All that to say we 'see' the impact of the mass influx of people moving into Valley metro areas from elsewhere over the decades as they seek something better than what they had. What they find may seem to them, at least in the short term, marginally 'better' than what they left behind. But the overall impact of these mass arrivals and the ever increasing pressure on Valley cities to provide for their needs with affordable housing and meaningful work opportunities has come to the point of overwhelming any ability these cities may have realistically once had to serve and protect these new citizens.

This has resulted in the ongoing transition to quasi-military police forces, federally supported, trained to protect Valley cities, their leaders, the investments they've made in infrastructure and real property, and federal and state resources from an increasingly hostile citizenry whose hopes for a better life in Arizona have been left unmet with opportunities largely nonexistent.

All of which begs the question, ..where do we go from here? What solutions are there, really?


..FAILURE is not the opposite of SUCCESS, it's part of what makes SUCCESS..
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Muniac] #152017 08/02/21 09:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951
Az4x4 Offline OP
Platinum Member
*****
OP Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951

Originally Posted by Muniac
.....George - Glad you're not getting washed out. We've had problems on I70 through Glen Canyon. The fire up there wiped out vegetation with the usual mud slides imminent with wet earth. That section of road is a constant problem. After the cleanup VIDEO.

We're dealing with idiots here and inexperienced drivers resulting in ACCIDENTS. Check out this VIDEO. The young girl still remains in a wheelchair. Dealing with this has placed HUGE loads on mountain rescue, fire crews, law enforcement and emergency medical staff. Death toll here is pretty high too. Less people, less trouble is what I always say. Stay safe...

Idiots and inexperienced drivers may well be the death of us all. That wrecked Jeep tumbling down the mountain side on Black Bear Pass, narrowly missing the vehicle with the video camera that recorded part of the Jeep's fall off the trail above, is a definite 'pucker yer drawstring' experience just watching it. The vehicle with the camera was fortunate not to have been a few feet further down the trail when that Jeep tumbled by on it's way downhill. Far too many highly inexperienced back country off road drivers to feel safe if you're part of a 4x4 group like that. Feel sorry for the girl who's still in a wheel chair, and sorrier yet that no one thought to teach her the 'dos and don'ts' of off the beaten path driving. Learning 'the hard way' is no way to learn..

This VIDEO from about a year ago shows how dangerous one of these UTV crashes can be, and how quickly and unexpectedly they can occur, in particular with an inexperienced untrained driver behind the wheel.

With all the rain we've had our forests have reopened and traffic up here on the Rim has increased exponentially. A couple of months and things will slack off again, but for now it's best to avoid places where flatlanders and their expensive Chinese built toys tend to congregate..


..FAILURE is not the opposite of SUCCESS, it's part of what makes SUCCESS..
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Az4x4] #152019 08/03/21 01:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,911
peejman Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,911
Originally Posted by Az4x4
This VIDEO from about a year ago shows how dangerous one of these UTV crashes can be, and how quickly and unexpectedly they can occur, in particular with an inexperienced untrained driver behind the wheel.


That's a really hard way to learn, very unfortunate.

My brother-in-law had a similar crash with less catastrophic results a number of years ago. He was drunk and riding around in a UTV with a buddy in the middle of the night. It flipped at least once (maybe twice) and crushed his right elbow. Several surgeries and years of therapy brought it back to about 75% capacity.

I helped build and race these in college.... https://tntechbajasae.com/

[Linked Image from tntechbajasae.files.wordpress.com]

What's clearly shown in the photo is one thing I find to be an egregious error in UTV safety requirements.... wrist restraints. We tumbled that car end over end many times and no one ever got more than bruised. New people were always told to let go when it flips (lest their thumbs get broken) and let the wrist restraints do their job. Truth be told, if the flip was violent enough to risk injury, you couldn't hold on to the steering wheel if you wanted to.


This shall pass, be still and know.
2006 XT225, UNI filter, ProTaper bars, MSR handguards, SS front brake line, Shinko 241's.
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Az4x4] #152201 09/06/21 01:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951
Az4x4 Offline OP
Platinum Member
*****
OP Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951

Traffic heading north out of the Valley towards Payson on SR-87 for the 2021 Labor Day weekend.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

From Payson a major portion of this Labor Day traffic turned east on SR-260 to the top of the Rim then made their way single file through Forest Lakes and on to Heber/Overgaard and points north and east from here.

With our last 'Gun Show' of the season at the Community Center on Saturday, along with a revival of the community's traditional 'Lumberjack Games' from years ago at Tall Timbers Park, plus lots more to do and see and take part in for those who braved the traffic jam just to get away from the heat of the Valley and up here where the weather's great for a couple of days, I'd venture a guess that most would say it was 'worth whatever it took'!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Of course there's always someone who's had too much to drink and thought they were impervious to disaster of any sort, so they figured 'spinning donuts' in someone else's camp site in the middle of the night was fun - until suddenly it wasn't FUN anymore. Dozens of such stupidity driven 'accidents' up here every time there's a mass exodus from the Valley of flatlanders and their garage kept 'toys' they paid thousands of dollars for just to come up here and make a complete ass of themselves.

For the most part we who live here welcome those who make the trek up the hill into the forests on top of the Rim. The only thing that's aggravating to a degree is that a majority of people from the Valley are lead foot drivers who think nothing of zooming through our community on SR-260 at 65 to 75+ mph, even though the posted speed limit is 45 mph, which locals adhere to almost religiously.

Sheriff's Deputies and DPS Officers working this area say it's like 'shooting fish in a barrel' with the way people speed through here. The only thing is that for every driver they pull over and ticket countless more go by equally as fast if not faster.


..FAILURE is not the opposite of SUCCESS, it's part of what makes SUCCESS..
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Az4x4] #152202 09/06/21 01:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,911
peejman Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,911
Wow. I'll take a hard pass on that traffic. There's a reason why we generally avoid the mountains on holidays.


This shall pass, be still and know.
2006 XT225, UNI filter, ProTaper bars, MSR handguards, SS front brake line, Shinko 241's.
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Az4x4] #152206 09/06/21 04:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,048
J
JerryH Offline
Platinum Member
***
Offline
Platinum Member
***
J
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,048
Geez. I'm glad I didn't decide to go to Payson, or anywhere up in that area. I wonder if I-17 toward Flagstaff was like that too. Anytime you have that much traffic you are bound to have a few idiots. While I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck in that mess, I kind of have a different outlook on it than I did a couple of years ago. It's nice to see people going places after being forced by the government to stay home for so long. Just one more sign of things hopefully returning to normal.

My former in laws used to camp up around Forest Lakes. They volunteered to be camp hosts, and would spend 3 months at the time up there in a travel trailer. I would often ride up there several times during the summer and spend 2-3 days at their camp, sleeping in the tent they had set up to keep their supplies in. I rode my XT over the endless miles of forest roads. I had a street legal bike with an OHV sticker on it. A lot of the campers would bring non street legal quads up there with no plates, and let their kids ride them around, many of whom were too young to know how to ride properly, and not even wearing helmets. I remember going to the store at Woods Canyon Lake once, and someone had ridden a quad into the lake.


The above is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
1994/2001 custom built XT225 with a ton of aftermarket parts.



Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Az4x4] #152217 09/07/21 05:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 277
D
Deserteagle56 Offline
Member L2
*****
Offline
Member L2
*****
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 277
Seeing the photos of those congested highways makes me so glad I live out in the middle of nowhere, a place where people don't want to go, where I can stand in the middle of the highway and take a photo and not have to worry about being run over.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Worshipper of sun and wild country.
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Deserteagle56] #152219 09/07/21 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,308
Muniac Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,308
That's a really nice photo. We've seen a HUGE uptick in crowds here. The area is slowly getting ruined as a result. Enjoy your serenity while it lasts.


Evolve & Simplify
Be There or Be Nowhere! A Few Adventures & Video
Re: "They Paved Paradise.. [Re: Deserteagle56] #152220 09/07/21 06:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951
Az4x4 Offline OP
Platinum Member
*****
OP Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,951

I'm with you on being somewhere others don't care to be, DE. Lots of places in Arizona just like where you took the photo, but few of those are in the heavily forested high country areas of the state.

Once the summer vacation rush is over and it snows up here, traffic gets extremely light. But living in a community that straddles AZ-260 and funnels people through here all year long isn't all that peaceful during peak vacation time traffic months.

Fortunately we live a considerable distance from the main highway, and there's ways to get around that traffic zooming through has no impact on, so at least we've got that goin' for us during peak summer traffic!


..FAILURE is not the opposite of SUCCESS, it's part of what makes SUCCESS..
Page 2 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Web & Site Search
Google
 
Custom TO Customer
Specialty Resource
Fab Ads
Boardcaster Updates

Board Upgrade: Board upgrade to V7.7.3 has been completed on Monday Feb 3rd 2020. Ride safely. Enjoy the new software!

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 8 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Top Posters(All Time)
Reggie 11,645
Muniac 6,308
alexd 5,915
Az4x4 4,951
Moto Psycho 4,684
peejman 3,911
kris 2,366
JerryH 2,048
Paul49 2,026
Doc250 1,643
Forum Statistics
Forums38
Topics16,571
Posts149,160
Members5,753
Most Online279
Dec 6th, 2019
Newest Members
XT250Girl08, tekkai, mkhach, JimJ, Slimslade33
5753 Registered Users
January
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3