Search

GREAT RIDES & STAYS!
Fab Ads
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: Az4x4] #149997 01/13/21 01:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
I
imlost Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
Jerry,
Though I don't mind answering your question, it seems like a deflection. I asked you first.

Last edited by imlost; 01/13/21 01:18 PM.
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: imlost] #149998 01/13/21 03:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,631
peejman Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,631
Originally Posted by imlost
I'm profoundly saddened by the attack on the Capitol. It's surreal the backbone of the US was under siege by an insurrection of people claiming to be Americans. It's such a contradiction, and unbelievable this collection of haters felt they could actually pull this off. The video is horrible and shocking to watch, yet I can't stop watching it.

I'm curious how you conservatives feel about this. Do you think this action is at all justifiable? It's absolutely abhorrent to me. I would feel this way even if it was a liberal faction that did it. It's a violation of the sanctity of the democracy.

These are the most frightening things I've seen in my lifetime. This is an attack to us, by a faction that claims to be us. Oh, and the desecration of the flag is sickening.


I'm conflicted on how I feel about the "attack on the Capitol".

I fully support and agree with the idea and practice of protesting. It seems this rally was intended to end, but a few troublemakers decided they weren't done yet and escalated it. While what those idiots did after the rally was illegal and stupid, at least they did in in DC instead of their own backyards. If you're going to protest the actions of your government, what better place to do so? Many of the hooligans are now reaping the consequences of their actions via arrest and job loss, and I'm fine with that too. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It's proof there's morons on both sides.

I find the media silence on the killing (murder?) of an unarmed protestor inside the Capitol deafening. Especially when there's video of it.

Given the minimal damage and near zero impact to the area, I find the outrage relatively laughable. Compared to recent protests in other major cities, this was nothing more than a few yahoos vandalizing some stuff for a few hours. Had this happened anywhere else, it might not have even made the evening news. The whole thing reminds me of the "Hunger Games" series.


This shall pass, be still and know.
2006 XT225, UNI filter, ProTaper bars, MSR handguards, SS front brake line, Shinko 241's.
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: Az4x4] #149999 01/13/21 04:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,763
Az4x4 Offline OP
Platinum Member
*****
OP Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,763

Originally Posted by Az4x4
...Mozilla, developer of the open-source Firefox internet browser, posted that more must be done to keep 'Donald Trump and other bad actors' out of cyberspace. In response a growing number of Firefox users are saying they'll never use Mozilla again.

Mozilla declared that the storming of the Capitol was the “culmination of a four-year disinformation campaign orchestrated by the President.” In a blog post titled, We Need More than Deplatforming Mozilla said that Twitter’s decision to permanently ban Trump from its platform didn’t go far enough in weeding out "hate" on the internet.

Blaming Trump for the “siege and take-over” of the US Capitol on January 6, Mozilla broad brushed everyone who sympathizes in any way with the President's views by saying, “white supremacy is about more than any one personality.” Going on they said, “We need solutions that don’t start after untold damage has been done. Changing these dangerous dynamics requires more than just the temporary silencing or permanent removal of bad actors from social media platforms”.

Their post ended declaring that the answer to Trump and other bad voices was not to “do away with the internet,” but rather to “build a better one” that can “withstand” such “challenges”.

The link highlighted above will take you to Mozilla's post..

Returning to this thread's original post, which I've quoted above, after reading this on the official blog of the Mozilla Foundation, the outfit best known for its Firefox web browser, I uninstalled Firefox and it won’t be back on any of my computers. If you read Mozilla's post carefully, without minimizing its implications, and you have Firefox installed on your machine, it's likely that you will delete it too.

Some strange mind bending illness appears to be a work here. We've seen it on display with Google, Apple, Twitter, Facebook, and others. And now the Mozilla Foundation informs us they too can sing these verses with the best of them.

I shared this with you guys and gals because it's about 'us', about the very thing this thread has focused on, about who we are as a nation with a rich and diverse population mix - and how the author, who spoke in behalf of Mozilla and Firefox, believes that the actions of Donald Trump are somehow "reprehensible", and wants to broad brush anyone and everyone who expresses any association with or sympathy for anything that President Trump ever did or stood for as being tantamount to Nazism.

It's likely that she has no idea what actions President Trump actually took. But she thinks she does - she read it on the Internet, viewed brief clips of his speeches - and she thinks his actions, as they were presented to her, are "reprehensible". That's fine. That’s her prerogative. She can think what she wants. I don't care what she thinks. None of us should.

What I do care about, what we should care about, what we better start caring about, is that she thinks there are 70 million violent white Nazi supremacists in the United States. She thinks I am a Nazi. She thinks you are a Nazi. She thinks every single person who voted for Donald Trump - every single one of us is a violent white supremacist Nazi.

On its face this is so far beyond simply 'nuts' that it beggars belief. But she doesn't stop there. She thinks they got that way - that I got that way, you got that way - because Donald Trump caused it to happen. He “fomented” something. She really believes this. You and I and the rest of the 70 million who voted for Trump are duped “ignorant masses,” blindly following some guy and doing everything he says because we’re too stupid to do anything else.

Don’t miss the tone of what she says in speaking for Mozilla. She doesn’t think anything about her statement is the least bit controversial. Where she lives, among people she knows, what she wrote for Mozilla is simply 'common knowledge'. Where she lives, amongst those she works with, it’s 'common knowledge' that 70 million violent white Nazi supremacists share the United States with morally-superior people like her. She sees it as up to her and her self-anointed virtue signaling friends and fellow travelers to silence and “deplatform” these 70 million Trump inspired Nazi sympathizers by all means possible.

And that's not all. There’s something else going on here, an almost total disconnect from reality preventing her, and everyone else who thinks like she does, from recognizing as preposterous and promptly dismissing this idea of 70 million white supremacist proto-Nazis simply waiting for the right politician to come along so they can don their 'brown shirts' and goose step in unison, bearing their flags openly all across America.

This is not only one of the craziest things any of us have ever heard, it's a delusional view of reality, a view that has settled like a wet blanket over virtually the entire West coast of the United States.

The author of Mozilla's blog piece is in her 60s, an attorney, a graduate of Boalt Hall - which in California is like saying “Harvard Law” on the east coast. She isn't stupid or unsophisticated. As Chair of a famous non-profit group, she talks to hundreds of people from all walks of life every week. Yet here she is spouting this twisted drivel that we hear from almost everyone in her town about how this country is home to millions of Nazi white supremacists. We, all of us, need to ask ourselves, 'How does this happen?', then come up with ways to short circuit stuff like this in the future - even if that means simply 'pulling the plug on Firefox' on our own PCs right now.

If we've been around awhile we've learned how nearly impossible it is to hold a dialog with people who think like this lady does. She and Mozilla, for whom she speaks, actually believe that anyone who voted for or supports President Trump in any way is a Nazi. They not only believe this, they 'know it'. They read it on the Internet. They read more of it on the Internet every day. They are steeped in it, pickled in the brine of it, driven by the kind of righteous, fulminating hatred that always fills self-appointed moral-superiors, whoever they may be and wherever they're found.

They become the very thing they say they abhor. They are like 'Klansmen' riding through the night, looking for “Trump supporter” 'Nazis' they can silence forever by "Deplatforming" them so they're never heard from again.

This is pure insanity. People who buy into such thinking are dangerous, and they're well past simply getting out of hand. There won't be a nice way out of this. No "Come, and let us reason together" that will slow or halt this fast moving train of self-appointed moral elites.

'Deplatform' Firefox on your PC if you will, then remain vigilant (and hopeful) these next four years as moral 'Klansmen' like this lady, representing Mozilla, ride roughshod over basic American freedoms at their leisure..


The voyage of discovery that truly matters is not in seeking new lands but in seeing with new eyes.
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: Az4x4] #150000 01/13/21 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,143
Muniac Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,143
George - Excellent post and thanks for saying (eloquently) what needs to be said. I hope America is listening and that means all of America. In reality this has nothing to do with politics, Trump or government. It has everything to do with misguided oligarchs acting in what they believe is their appointed self righteous duty. To cleanse American of the evil as they see it. They have no rights to make those judgement calls. What better place to attempt such draconian measures as the internet where a simple software change can delete millions of people from relevance. The fact that they have this power certainly doesn't mean it's in the nation's best interests to exercise it. As was posted, America is America's problem and also its solution. Education being the first BIG step towards reform and change.

I believe the late Herman Cain was the first to coin TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) which explains much of what's going on. Rush Limbaugh coined the phrase, "Liberalism is a mental disorder." That's my broad brush stoke for people throwing Trump supporters under the bus. To refresh everyone's memories, I've included our Constitution's 1st Amendment text below:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This pretty much closes the case on the censorship that's going on now. That it's wrong and unlawful. I don't see anything in the above text that mentions political parties. Or any other parameters on human life. It means to apply to all Americans. The constitution works only as well as those interpreting it. Now our elected representatives are weaponizing it against us, the American people. Anyone not troubled by this is out of touch with reality.

As for protests, it says above people to peaceably assemble which is pretty clear. MLK championed the idea of passive resistance during the civil rights movement. And that controlling markets can effect positive changes. More effectively than clubs, fire bombs, death and destruction. What the Black Community did to mourn King's assassination was completely contrary to his message. As humans, emotions can override good judgement. This isn't in our best interests but goes on time and time again.

As for Jan 6th, I don't condone the violence. To broad brush stroke the entire group because a few contaminants decided to engage in violence is also wrong. But some standards need to exist. As was previously pointed out, why don't we interpret the violence in Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc. using the same yardstick. It seems violence has now become a partisan issue. OK in blue states, but illegal and shameful for Trump supporters. And if violence does break out in a group supporting Trump, the President caused it. This is simply tincture of BS. Blatant duplicity in our justice system and law enforcement is another very troubling phenomenon. That violence in one political context is OK, under reported, misreported, condoned, encouraged or not reported and in another political context it's a heinous crime?? WTF! We are experiencing a complete breakdown in America's governmental, legal, judicial and constitutional infrastructure. Replacing them with situational values and partisan agendas. This has serious implications for all of us regardless of your political orientation or any other orientation you believe relevant. I'll say it again, "You're not going to like what's coming."

Also thinking we can all sit down, smoke the peace pipe, shake hands and come out in agreement is nothing more than a fantasy in the context of the real world. America is on a fast tract for discovering what happens when the immovable object is hit by the unstoppable force. One or the other must yield and that after the explosion. Let's hope we can pick up the pieces and regroup. Bob Dylan wrote "Blowing in the Wind" back in 1962 which became a hit for Peter, Paul and Mary. It offers us some wisdom if you LISTEN.


Evolve & Simplify
Be There or Be Nowhere! A Few Adventures & Video
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: Az4x4] #150001 01/13/21 08:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
I
imlost Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
I apologize to Az4x4 for my post regarding the Capitol, and sending this thread sideways. I should have posted this in another thread. Since I've already muddied the waters and most of you have responded (sort of), I'd like to follow-up with a few thoughts. Again, my apologies.

It is interesting to me that most of you had a one-sentence response to my question about the Capitol insurrection, but went on an extended rant about violence by liberals in other cities. First, I'd like to make a clarification about my feelings about those situations.

The Constitution has provisions for peaceful protesting, as implemented in Article 1 and subsequently interpreted by the Supreme Court. It reads:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

This said, it does not support violent protest, insurrection, and the like,

This type of behavior by liberals is not acceptable to me, nor is it acceptable if done by, conservatives, religious groups or anyone else. It's not acceptable, period. Furthermore, this is also the way most democrats and liberals feel, and it's odd to me that you all have picked up the idea that it's somehow OK with them, and you've made it a rally cry and justification for the coup at the Capitol. I've been watching endless and frequent reporting by the mainstream media for most of last year, and it's not the picture you're painting. It's not OK, and it's not justified by the majority of liberals or mainstream media.

Furthermore, I find it incredibly disturbing that you have been trying to justify the insurrection as being the "action of a few", and that most were there to peacefully protest. That's BS!
The masses pushed against the police and forced their way in. it wasn't the action of "a few", There were hundreds of insurrectionists inside, and thousands trespassing and cheering it on outside. 5 People died, including a couple police officers. It's also BS when you say the mainstream media has not been reporting the death of Ashli Babbit. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/capitol-mob-deaths/index.html .
Many of the insurrectionists in the coup were screaming "Hang Mike Pence", over and over. This is horrible, and it should be denounced by the Commander-in-Chief, yet it hasn't been. Neither has this coup in general. It has been reported that he delighted in what he saw. Let me know if you haven't seen footage of that, and I'll be happy to refer you to it.

None of this extreme crap is OK! Violence is not protesting! An attempt to overtake the federal government is not OK! Trump not acknowledging this attempted coup and his responsibility to try to stop it, is not OK! None of this BS is sustainable!

OK, I said what I feel needed to be said, and now I'm going to fade into oblivion. Again, sorry for the disruption, and I'll see you again when we're talking about things that we have in common, which, I hope is more in the future.

Last edited by imlost; 01/13/21 08:52 PM.
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: Az4x4] #150002 01/13/21 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,143
Muniac Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,143
Hey no need to apologize here for your thoughts. I appreciate you posting thoughts, ideas and feelings. It does get us all thinking in different directions. If we don't have a dialog there's no debate. Less debate, solutions evade us. I don't think anyone would disagree America is in dire need of solutions to some tough problems. Confusion comes in figuring out the best and most effective ones. It's there disagreements run the full spectrum. My position on violence is pretty clear.

As for Jan 6th, I don't condone the violence. To broad brush stroke the entire group because a few contaminants decided to engage in violence is also wrong.

Should you wish to cherry pick my use of "a few" is understandable. But it doesn't alter the message of not condoning violence which should resonate. I also think everyone in this thread agrees that violence is wrong. I just don't understand how it was allowed to continue in Portland, for example. People killed, injured and billions of dollars of damage done. Perhaps, much worse than at the Capitol. With all due respect for a life being a life.

Back on point, how Mozilla's orange man bad policies are supposed to help quell this violence further mystifies me. We don't need more censorship but more transparency. BIG tech has made their censorship calls which is their right as a private business entity. How effective these measures will be nationally remains to be seen. Personally it raises concerns and I don't see this as anything more than pouring salt in the wound.

Congratulations to all posters for keeping this thread interesting, civil and respectful. It's nice to see this kind of group speak. smile


Evolve & Simplify
Be There or Be Nowhere! A Few Adventures & Video
Re: "We Need More than Deplatforming".. [Re: imlost] #150005 01/14/21 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,631
peejman Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Offline
Platinum Member
*****
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,631
Deplatforming.... If business want to dip their toe in politics and alienate a large portion of their customer base, they're free to do so. In this age of ultra-fast information transfer, word gets around quickly and people aren't afraid to talk with their wallets. Dicks Sporting Goods could be example #1.


This shall pass, be still and know.
2006 XT225, UNI filter, ProTaper bars, MSR handguards, SS front brake line, Shinko 241's.
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Web & Site Search
Google
 
Custom TO Customer
Specialty Resource
Fab Ads
Boardcaster Updates

Board Upgrade: Board upgrade to V7.7.3 has been completed on Monday Feb 3rd 2020. Ride safely. Enjoy the new software!

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 52 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Top Posters(All Time)
Reggie 11,645
Muniac 6,143
alexd 5,915
Az4x4 4,763
Moto Psycho 4,684
peejman 3,631
kris 2,366
Paul49 1,912
JerryH 1,704
Doc250 1,643
Forum Statistics
Forums38
Topics16,313
Posts146,508
Members5,589
Most Online279
Dec 6th, 2019
Newest Members
fillypeeno, Neil Cooper, Jeanette, 2wheelfun, kwcougs
5589 Registered Users
January
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3