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#146826 - 01/09/20 05:53 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: Az4x4]
onceona50 Offline
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Registered: 03/19/18
Posts: 213
Loc: CA
Goofy CA laws are made and enabled by people from down south. Once you get north of San Francisco, CA is still a different world.
I personally won't need to buy ammunition (stocked up) or a Whopper in the foreseeable future.

Ride On!!
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#146827 - 01/09/20 06:47 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: Az4x4]
Muniac Offline


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Loc: Montrose, CO
Well I'd throw in Colorado too as an escape mechanism. Our county, years ago, centered around the mining industry, farming and ranching. Parts of the mining industry are still active and tons of its history exists. To include the Ames Generating Station where Telsa, Westinghouse and Nunn worked to produce the first use of commercial AC power transmitted over a distance to the Gold King Mine about 2.5 mile away. To me these were the true progressives who gave the world its most valuable gifts. As of late, I'm not seeing anything of real value coming from the new generation.

As for jobs here, most of these were done by hard working conservative thinking people. And with a strong sense of community and coooperative spirit. Now many of them are either retired or in the ground. Ouray Country has about 4,500 people and one traffic light. It's been moving towards the left for years now as the demographics change. From an influx of outsiders bringing in their political ideas which they seem to think is best for everyone. None of the old schoolers born and raised here see that as an improvement. And I agree. Montrose, on the other hand, is quite conservative and home to many from other states.

In the 2016 election, Colorado went blue but only by 5 percentage points. So, unlike California, it could swing red come 2020. Our 2016 election proved you can win without CA, IL and NY. So these states could be thought of as irrelevant in a Presidential election. Thank God for the electoral college system and the geniuses that implemented it. That said, I think those calling CA, IL and NY home deserve much better. They need to elect better leadership. But it's much easier to just move out.

The self righteous part of the progressive movement is what disturbs me. And I don't think socialism flies very well in America. We had liberals here promoting a tax on vehicles to fund the Road & Bridge department. Basically a plan to go after the large wallets just because there was money in them. It was pointed out that a fellow with an old pickup truck who drives constantly pays little to nothing. Someone who just bought a new motorcycle driven seasonally pays a lot more. So this scheme doesn't relate road usage and impact to actual usage and who should pay. We proposed a simple weight class system to acquire the funding. Heavier vehicles pay more. The liberals didn't like that idea. And when the liberal's scheme went up for a vote, it was turned down by a 19% margin. So now there's no additional funding for the Road & Bridge department. Which is sad since they need the money.

To make matters worse my friend and I went to a social function held at our neighbor's place. The liberals there wouldn't even say hi to us because we defeated their funding plans (perception). The truth being we presented a counter argument which resonated with the population at large. So the "tax the rich" scheme was thus voted down fair and square. And we are now the enemies. An example of sore losers I guess. The take away shouldn't be hate but to rethink your strategy and come up with a better plan. Our county is very liberal and it was refreshing to see some common sense voting. In general, I think Americans vote with their wallet. And when it comes to money people want transparency not smoke and mirrors.

Differing opinions are good if respectful debate, compromise, factual data and complete information can prevail. To allow a group to arrive at the best possible solution with an understanding no solution will be perfect. I also don't like the name calling either and brush off treatment. If you've got issues or hurt feelings, hammer them out to a point of resolution! This type of emotionalism is petty, immature, childish, distracting, disrespectful, disruptive and offers nothing of value. And it leaves a disagreement to fester.

As for me, I hope the temperature of the country can come down, restore some common sense thinking, revisit compromise and get the work done. A lot of people and businesses are voting with their feet. I hope the tax dollars and jobs they take with them will be a wake up call to state and local governments to make positive changes. As for the self righteous, arrogant, misguided, victims, criminals and partially informed they aren't welcome over here. The door remains open to all others. Please bring us something of value wrapped in common sense.
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#146828 - 01/09/20 06:51 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: skypupbob]
Muniac Offline


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Loc: Montrose, CO
All our new neighbors get a personal welcome and chocolate bars from us. Yes we have some nice neighbors and a friendly community. Met some pretty nice people too along the way. A smile and an handshake still works pretty well around here.
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#146829 - 01/09/20 08:25 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: Muniac]
Az4x4 Offline
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Registered: 08/18/08
Posts: 4395
Loc: Heber/Overgaard, AZ

We're pretty much on the same level locally. Good neighbors, friendly, helpful people, open and available to help in most any way when called upon.

Our little community and most of Navajo Country, outside the reservations, is heavily conservative. Genuine love for family, country, friends and neighbors predominates. People call you by name, wave when they pass you on the street, look out for one another in a multitude of real world ways.

Our Community Center is heavily used throughout the year. Good churches with strong interfaith relationships work together on a variety of community support projects. Local shopping is most fun at 4 community thrift shops, if you're not in a rush. Restaurants are friendly places where owners and workers know you by sight and share friendly personal greetings whenever you walk in.

Couple of good mechanics in town. A Vet who works with large and small animals. A huge ACE Hardware. Two small grocery stores. A Family Dollar plus a General Dollar to boot. A VFW Post. Friendly, helpful Sheriff's Deputies and an active Sheriff's Auxiliary keep a watchful eye on the community while securing the peace.

In our last local election we voted for common sense proposals and against ill-considered narrow minded agendas by a 3 to 1 margin. So far so good. As we continue pulling together we'll most likely keep it that way for posterity's sake.
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#146830 - 01/09/20 08:58 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: skypupbob]
peejman Offline
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Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 3323
Loc: East TN USA
Originally Posted By: skypupbob
This sounds like a classic case of the been here's verses the come here's.
Look the world's population is only getting larger and everyone needs a place to live. You can spend your time getting pissed off at the come here's, whether they are from California, New York or wherever, or you can relax and maybe get to know your new neighbors. They are probably real nice folks! They might not have the same political leanings as you, but they are people who deserve a chance to be a friendly new neighbor.
We have seen HUGE growth here in Idaho. Instead of being resentful, I'm glad I live in a place so wonderful that people want to move here!
There,,, my two cents!


I'm happy for them to come here, just don't try to change all the reasons why I like it here, and (incomprehensibly) why you came.

They tell us how wonderful the mountains are and how low the taxes are. Then in the next breath they complain about the lack of county trash pick-up, lack of gee-whiz tools in the public schools, lack of government services, how we need a wheel tax to improve the roads, and a myriad of other ways in which we "do it wrong down here".

Why do you think the taxes are low?

^ I had nearly that exact conversation with a neighbor from the next street over who pulled in the driveway one saturday morning to ask about our dog. We had to euthanize her due to failing health. What a nice gesture to take the time to stop and express sympathy for the loss of our dog. I was most appreciative. And then he spent the next 10 minutes railing against most of the reasons why he retired here from Queens NY.

Color me confused.

My neighbor across the street is an ex-Marine, ex-cop from western NY, and a firm democrat. He's a super nice guy. We've helped each other with various things over the years. We talk motorcycles instead of politics.


I'm very weary of all the "us vs. them" rhetoric from both sides. The US is a big place. Folks need to accept that there are cultural differences from place to place, and different doesn't mean bad or wrong.
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#146831 - 01/09/20 09:14 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: peejman]
Az4x4 Offline
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Registered: 08/18/08
Posts: 4395
Loc: Heber/Overgaard, AZ

Originally Posted By: peejman
.....I'm happy for them to come here, just don't try to change all the reasons why I like it here, and (incomprehensibly) why you came.

They tell us how wonderful the mountains are and how low the taxes are. Then in the next breath they complain about the lack of county trash pick-up, lack of gee-whiz tools in the public schools, lack of government services, how we need a wheel tax to improve the roads, and a myriad of other ways in which we "do it wrong down here"...

Well said. Agree totally. +1..
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#146846 - 01/10/20 08:32 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: Az4x4]
JPouchet Offline
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Registered: 12/16/19
Posts: 9
Loc: California - Orange County
Ok- so I am NOT coming to the defense of California's politics or any of the many social / societal issues but it is otherwise a great place to live.

I have learned to handle the taxes and outrageously expensive gas/diesel/electricity (although natural gas is quite cheap so we yanked the electric double ovens out of the wall and put in a massive Blue Star range - oven with our recent remodel. Take that SCE) as a cost for enjoying the wonderful weather, great roads, excellent schools (despite the education union's constant whining about lack of funds, etc.), excellent healthcare, clean albeit expensive neighborhoods, and general quality of life.

Of course doing so often requires turning off the news feed as day-to-day life is not at all like anything portrayed in the media. At least for most of us. I don't live in San Francisco and left LA over 35 years ago so unable to speak for the core cities. But Orange, San Diego, and Riverside counties are for the most part great places to live, work, and ride.

I do share the common sentiment that those who leave California (or similarly thinking States) should remember to leave their politics and social conventions at the State line.

Years ago one could find tee-shirts and Bumper Stickers in the greater Seattle area that clearly stated: Do NOT Californicate Washington.

Sadly, those same tee-shirts / stickers now would be found offensive, banned, and those who dared to wear / post them would be berated.

Anyway - a great place to ride. Heck I was out on my bicycle this morning to get in a quick training ride. Would be hitting the trails on the XT225 later this afternoon but my neighbor is of in STL filming the Supecross event. Other riding buddy is up at Big Bear enjoying the snow.

Not from today, a bit cooler so I was layered-up.


Wonderful thing about this country - there is a place for everyone. I've lived in numerous states and countries. Not enamored with California but haven't yet found another place that provides me and my family what we need. I do LOVE Australia, especially the Cattle Dogs, but would be too far removed from friends and family to make it work. So I will just have to get another cattle dog.



Sadly I lost this boy over a year ago to cancer and old age. Huge hole in my heart.

Lunch break almost over.

All the best from California. Glad to ride with any of you should you ever get out to the OC.

Oh, and I have a travel bag for my motorcycle kit. Planning a Harley ride in Columbus, OH later this year.

JP
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#146847 - 01/10/20 08:40 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: Az4x4]
Muniac Offline


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Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 5877
Loc: Montrose, CO
Nice post and chronicle. Always like hearing from those with boots on the ground. They know first hand, what gives. Yes the mainstream news isn't the place to go for factual information. We did Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and the Flume Trail some years ago. CA has a lot to offer for those who know where to find it and adapt to cultural norms. Travel safely.
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#146849 - 01/10/20 09:39 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: JPouchet]
Az4x4 Offline
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Registered: 08/18/08
Posts: 4395
Loc: Heber/Overgaard, AZ

JP, I spent my youngest years, between '39 and '42, at Deer Springs Ranch, one of a small number of ranches in that remote area. Dad managed Deer Springs for Mr. Henry Chamberlain. Ranch headquarters lay 5 miles inland from the coast highway in the Santa Monica Mountains between Oxnard and LA. Obviously no TV - no one had it back then. No close neighbors. Just dad and mom, a couple of Mexican ranch hands, horses, cattle, angora goats, black tail deer, two Doberman dogs, and occasional friends who found their way out there to visit.

As remote as we were on the ranch (this was prior to and just after the US became involved in WW2), and as quiet as our lives were, I have vivid memories of the mountainous country we were in, the trails I rode on a small horse tethered behind my dad's larger horse as I followed along behind him up towards 'Old Boney', the high point of the mountain range that rose up behind the ranch.


Dad and me and one of our Dobermans looking towards Old Boney..

My memories of California from all those decades ago are of wild remote places like our ranch home, the horses I learned to ride at the age of 3, the long 5 mile trek over a bulldozed rock and gravel road from the coast highway to ranch headquarters where we lived, the smell of our mountain side home with sea breezes rolling in from the blue Pacific spread out below us.

Unfortunately those idyllic days long ago slipped below the horizon, never to be seen again. With the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor life changed - for everyone. Black out curtains hung over windows at night to deny enemy subs targets to shoot at. Young men heading to boot camp preparing for war. Combat planes wheeling training circles over the Pacific firing at make believe targets just off the coast. Brilliant star lit nights at the ranch marred by the anxieties war brings with it. I was too young at the time to understand everything going on, but the anxiety on my folk's faces told me all I needed to know.

My love for California stems from this long ago time. In my mind's eye I still see it as it was 'back then', when I was a kid just getting my feet under me. Hate thinking about the way it is today, big cities in particular. Know a few people who live in smaller communities. Like you they're content with what they have and how life treats them. Certainly don't knock anyone for where they choose to live or their approach to life.

Just that, as you so well put it:
Originally Posted By: JPouchet
.....I do share the common sentiment that those who leave California (or similarly thinking States) should remember to leave their politics and social conventions at the State line.....

Thanks for your timely reminders, JP. California holds a real mystique from my point of view. I'm blessed to have spent my youngest years on that remote ranch a few miles off the coast. That experience left vivid memories lasting a lifetime..
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#146858 - 01/11/20 08:31 PM Re: California's new laws for 2020.. [Re: Az4x4]
Muniac Offline


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Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 5877
Loc: Montrose, CO
Yup, things have changed a lot since then. Sadly many of those changes aren't for the better. Tons more people around now which needs to be contended with. Pad the world from idiots. So we all start this new decade. Ponder what you can do to improve things moving forward.

I'm presently helping a friend get his business up and running in a new location. Some of the work I'm paid for. And some I volunteer for free. A good deed goes a long way. I hope my efforts will help improve things in a small way. The operative word here is volunteer. Where I can pick when, where and how much.

As for the government prying money out of my wallet for some misguided social contract - "F" that!
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