Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing)

Posted by: operaflute

Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/03/13 09:41 PM

Um, so, yeah, I've never changed my tires. It's time I learn.
Insert your own favorite curse words here: um, how do I get the dern tire OFF? Youtube vids etc. getting me nowhere, but I have gotten quite a bit of exercise jumping up and down on the thing... (bead is broken but that's as far as I can get)
For the record: Search for "tire change" comes up empty, but there's something wonky on that - any time I search for anything, I get a long random list of completely unrelated topics.)
Tips, please!
Posted by: operaflute

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/03/13 11:18 PM

I found this thread via google search:
http://www.xt225.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=25309&page=1

In it, one post says the following:
KLM4755 (Keith) has a great D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) rear tube change (in the field) tutorial posted under the "Nuts, Bolts, Wrenching, Scratched Knuckles" category. It's done using a KLR650 rear wheel without the bead/rim lock, but is pretty similar to an XT225 rear wheel. He does a real nice job, has all the right tools and takes great photos of the whole process. It's definitely worth checking out. The post can take a long time to download due to all the photos in it, so you might need to be patient.[quote][/quote]

Can anyone find this DIY thread? I can't. Forum doesn't let you search for anything older than a year, as far as I can tell.
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/03/13 11:32 PM

I'm assuming you are referring to removing tires from rims. Not removing wheels from bike.

Everyone has their theories and methods. I'll provide some tips we use to change tires. Something we've done often over the years.

Front tire is easier than the rear. What helps is warming the rubber so it's most pliable. Rims have the smallest diameter in the center (away from bead). Make sure to push the bead you're working on into the "groove". Make sure all the air is out of the tube. An obvious conclusion. A good grade of tire irons (spoons) is required to get the leverage needed to pry the bead out, up and over the rim. The first few inches is the toughest. Please no dirty comments.

For old tires that are going to be tossed, WD40 can be used as a bead lubricant. Softens rubber slightly and allows it to slide over metal more easily.

It's the same process for the rear tire but more difficult owing to more rubber and smaller rim (18" versus 21"). You also need to get the bead lock loose. One of the biggest PITA is getting the valve stem back through the rim when installing the new rubber. I put this through first then fit the cavity of the tire around the tube. Care must be used to avoid pinching the tube or damaging it with a tire iron. Tuck the tube inside the tire and work it on the rim.

Out of all the tips I can provide, heating up the rubber and lubricating the bead are the most important. I use 3 tire irons. Make sure they provide adequate leverage. Having a second pair of hands helps but isn't required. Work on a tabletop surface for easy access. For lubricants on new tires, use very soapy water or KY jelly. You can use 2 4" C-clamps to compress the tire so it stays in the rim groove whilst you work the tire over the rim.

Changing tires requires a certain sensitivity to mechanical things, frictions and forces. It takes a bit of practice and patience. Personally I hate the job and would gladly pay the $15 to have it done. Most times we're just not in places where these services are available. Doing the work yourself also means you know exactly what was done. Not being pressured by an hourly shop schedule means you can take your time. Others will chime in with their experience and what works. Hopefully the aggregation helps avoid aggravation. Good luck.
Posted by: deodom

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 01:07 AM

Operaflute,
Here is one I had bookmarked off this forum. I will try and find the video also.
http://www.xt225.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=3400&Number=26376
Doug
ps: video from lucas oil:
http://motocross.transworld.net/1000120978/news/how-to-change-your-tire/
Posted by: patuca

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 01:19 AM

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6759117



patuca
Posted by: operaflute

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 05:00 AM

OOh, thanks for link.

The Beau finally got it off, which is good, I guess, except I haven't mastered the skill. Harrumph.
I did learn:
1) the tire irons I was using were making things more difficult - a different pair got me more progress (but by then, honestly, I was just too frustrated
2) It was the rear I was working on. Should try front first!
3) No amount of effort allowed me to "push the bead into the groove." I understood this needed to happen to make it easier, but I simply can not push it in there. I didn't warm the tire though - perhaps with a hefty dose of our desert sunshine I might stand a chance, I don't know.

I really would like to master this BEFORE I find myself in the field with a flat.
Posted by: peejman

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 02:20 PM

+1 to everything Muniac said.

Leaving the wheels and tires out to warm in the sun for a couple hours makes a big difference.

Lube... lots of lube.

3 spoons, 3 hands, and having done it a few times makes it a lot easier.
Posted by: Ben

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 04:01 PM

you are spelling it wrong, they are tyres
Posted by: operaflute

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 04:14 PM

That explains everything!!

Originally Posted By: Ben
you are spelling it wrong, they are tyres
Posted by: Tigersaw

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: operaflute


3) No amount of effort allowed me to "push the bead into the groove."


I just kneel on the opposite side to the one I am working on to keep it in the groove.
I once tried pushing a wooden chock in to keep it depressed, it kind of worked but was a bad shape
Posted by: Deserteagle56

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/04/13 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: operaflute
OOh, thanks for link.

I really would like to master this BEFORE I find myself in the field with a flat.


Make sure you get some practice with the tube patching kit also. And even if you never get to use your patch kit, change it out periodically anyway. Fresh cement and patches are always best. Ask me how I know!

Just remember, depending on what punctured your tire you may be able to repair it without completely removing the tire from the rim. Matter of fact, I can't even remember the last time I did that in the field. Break the bead of the tire away from the rim, reach in and grab the tube and pull out enough of it to work on, and apply the patch. It's not quite as easy as it sounds (think pinched fingers and lots of cuss words) but most times it's easier and quicker than having to pull the tire off the rim. Just remember to pull out the offending object (nail, thorn, etc.)before you start work but mark the spot where it went in.
Posted by: operaflute

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/05/13 12:06 AM

That's the thing. I couldn't get it in there in the first place (no matter the kneeling the jumping the stomping the stepping or anything) much less keep it in there. C-clamp perhaps would have helped.

Originally Posted By: Tigersaw
Originally Posted By: operaflute


3) No amount of effort allowed me to "push the bead into the groove."


I just kneel on the opposite side to the one I am working on to keep it in the groove.
I once tried pushing a wooden chock in to keep it depressed, it kind of worked but was a bad shape
Posted by: nextlife

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/06/13 06:11 AM

How many miles do the stock tires last for? My bike has 900 miles and I would like to know if I should change them out before I leave on a long tour in November.

Cheers
Posted by: Reggie

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/06/13 07:52 AM

Originally Posted By: nextlife
How many miles do the stock tires last for? My bike has 900 miles and I would like to know if I should change them out before I leave on a long tour in November.

Cheers


Hi Nextlife,

depending on the use, I get around 9,000 miles out of the front and a little more out of the back. The XT is the only bike I've ever owned that goes through more front tyres than rear ones!

Regards
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/06/13 01:22 PM

Tire life depends on what you ride on, durometer rating of the tire, tread design, amount of skidding, temperature, inflation and available rubber thickness. Just to name a few factors. Durometer refers to the hardness of the rubber and varies from tire to tire. There's a PDF on it HERE.

A softer tire will erode more but may provide more traction in certain situations. A knobby pattern, for example, will provide more traction in terrain that allows it to "hook up". But that comes at the expense of less rubber in the tread pattern. These tires solve a traction problem in a unique way but wear quicker. Same can be said about trials tires. In tougher off road terrain we were getting about 700-900 miles out of our rear knobby tires and 5x that on the fronts. We'd replace the rear tires when the wear bars were gone.

In the Resources section there is the XT225 Tire Fitment thread HERE. You can read about tires there. Might shed some light on things.

My advice is, if you have any doubts about your tires and the means to replace them just get new tires. Especially if you are embarking on a tour. Don't overlook the importance of a good quality inner tube either. The usual checks should apply to include, rims, spokes, hub, bearings, brakes etc. Make sure all that stuff is in proper condition.

You may also find that locating the best tire for you is an empirical process. Front and rear tires may come from two different tire makers. And that's OK. Good luck and keep the rubber side down.
Posted by: nextlife

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/06/13 10:10 PM

Okay, I think I will just buy new tires to be safe. Hey Muniac, do you know of a motorcycle mechanic in St. George, UT I can go to? I figure I could get my tires installed, valves adjusted - and then ask him what else the bike needs.

Thanks for the reply's

Cheers
Posted by: CaptPhun

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/07/13 12:05 AM

I've changed tires on my XT225 & tubeless tires on my V-strom all by hand with simple tools (c-clamps, 3 tire spoons, rim protectors, something to keep the rotors from touching the ground like a couple of 4"x4" wood).
Here is the one tip that makes it a lot easier: RU-Glyde tire lubricant. Get it at Napa, Pep-Boys, Amazon, etc. $10 for a Gallon that will last a long time. Makes the tires slip on & off so much easier & doesn't bugger up aluminum rims. Its not WD-40, dish soap, etc, its only purpose in life is lubing tires for mounting/removing. Spend $10 on a gallon & save so much effort.
Posted by: operaflute

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/07/13 07:28 PM

Confirmed: front is waaaay easier.
Confirmed: I can't work on motorcycles without going batshit crazy with frustration.
Posted by: motoinmoab

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/08/13 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: operaflute
Confirmed: front is waaaay easier.
Confirmed: I can't work on motorcycles without going batshit crazy with frustration.

Nothing else you do to your moto is as hard, knuckle busting, or frustrating. I love working on my bike but changing tires is the one thing I won't do. I installed a Rekluse clutch in my DRZ the other day- it was pure joy tearing into the motor, smiled for hours afterwards. But I won't change a tire, that's the best $20 I know how to spend.
Posted by: nextlife

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/08/13 03:40 AM

Anybody here try beads to balance their tires? Just got a quote from a mechanic and I asked how he balanced the tires. He told me he uses beads. Good results here???
Posted by: redninja

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/08/13 06:12 AM

Originally Posted By: nextlife
Anybody here try beads to balance their tires? Just got a quote from a mechanic and I asked how he balanced the tires. He told me he uses beads. Good results here???


I put the beads into my street bike tires after they were recommended by a very good independent bike mechanic. Don't know if they helped or not....I had never found the wheels to be actually unbalanced; I just used them as a precaution. On the XT's I've never had the wheels balanced nor used the beads; we've never had any problems, but then again ride mostly off road, usually pretty slowly.
Posted by: Reggie

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/08/13 06:18 AM

Originally Posted By: motoinmoab
Originally Posted By: operaflute
Confirmed: front is waaaay easier.
Confirmed: I can't work on motorcycles without going batshit crazy with frustration.

Nothing else you do to your moto is as hard, knuckle busting, or frustrating. I love working on my bike but changing tires is the one thing I won't do. I installed a Rekluse clutch in my DRZ the other day- it was pure joy tearing into the motor, smiled for hours afterwards. But I won't change a tire, that's the best $20 I know how to spend.


Hi Motoinmoab,

I'm totally on the same wavelength as you, why get frustrated and knacker your knuckles, when you can get a pro to do it for a tenner?

OK if you're in the middle of nowhere, then the skill could come in handy but I never have a chance to visit such places.

Regards
Posted by: CaptPhun

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 10/08/13 05:08 PM

I just used stick on 1/4" weights. $8 for a huge supply, compared to the outrageous costs of beads.
I do the simple axle on jack stands & spin the wheel. Tape the weights opposite the heavy spot & test. Once the weight has been determined, stick on the weights & put a little silicone around them to keep them on. Easy to do.

Changing tires is all about technique, not force. And lube, lube and more lube.
Posted by: Jerry XT

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/15/16 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Muniac

Changing tires requires a certain sensitivity to mechanical things, frictions and forces. It takes a bit of practice and patience. Personally I hate the job and would gladly pay the $15 to have it done.


Changing tires is on my radar for the next 6 months so I'm searching the archives. Saw this and thought, GREAT! Called a local shop and was quoted $75, CRAP! (and the Govment told me inflation was low....).

Looks like I'm gonna have to do it myself!
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/15/16 03:39 PM

The front tire isn't bad. Just a bit more difficult than a bicycle tire owing to thicker rubber. I also use heavy motocross tubes which makes getting the valve stem through the rim a bit more challenging.

Getting the tire hot prior to installation helps a lot. Lubricating the bead (on/off) is a must. You can use a soap solution, KY, silicon or WD40. Three tire irons also helps. Make sure you get the bead down in the rim's depression when prying on/off. I use a few blocks of wood to hold the bead away (creates a space) from the rim to help extract the tube. It also helps with getting the valve stem in.

If you're careful, you can install the tube on the rim first then fit the tire over it. Makes getting the valve stem in an easy task. Then there's the dreaded bead lock (rear only). Using some lubrication and much fiddling this will pop into and around the bead. Be very careful not to pinch the tube during any phase of changing the tire.

Owing to crappy tubes, I alway check them first before installation. Pay close attention to the valve stem where it joins the tube. Also the valve core itself. Have had leaks here in the past.

For whatever it's worth, I'm looking at two front tires laying on the shop floor for 3-4 months. Just waiting to be put on the bikes. Goes to show how motivated I am.

As for the $75 bucks, call another shop. Good luck!
Posted by: Jerry XT

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/15/16 04:57 PM

thanks @Muniac
I've spent the last few hours in the archives, lots of great threads on tire changing.

I must say, after reading all the threads about changing tires on the trail, I feel a bit foolish about my lone deep woods riding without the tools and the knowledge to fix a tire.....my best preparation was bringing along hiking shoes so I didn't have to "walk out" in riding boots....along with a "Spot" locator and food/water/"make my day"....
Posted by: peejman

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/15/16 07:26 PM

The cost is what motivated me to get tire changing tools for by CBR years ago. I think the shop quoted $50 per tire to mount and balance. When you go through 2-3 sets of tire every year, that adds up quick. I bought a bead breaker, spoons, rim protectors, and built my own balancer for just over $100. It was nearly $400 for a set of tires from the shop, or I could buy tires for under $250 and install them myself. I'm all for supporting local businesses, but their costs were absurd.

And yes, always check tubes before installing. I put an extra piece of tape around the base of the valve stem as I've seen several wear through there.

A 21" tube will work both front & rear, so you only need to carry 1 spare. It's not ideal for the rear obviously, but it'll get you home.
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/15/16 09:42 PM

I hope I don't regret saying this. I've never changed a tire on the trails. Have ridden out on flats a couple of times without any issues other than it's slow. Much faster than pushing the bike, however.

In cooler weather the rubber supports the rear pretty well even less any air pressure. The front flaps and tugs at the handlebars a bit. Manageable if you're careful.

Having skills is always a good idea. So hats off to those that can deal with trail side repairs. Be safe.
Posted by: alexd

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/15/16 11:50 PM


My experience and opinion precisely.

Alexd
Posted by: peejman

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/16/16 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Muniac
I hope I don't regret saying this. I've never changed a tire on the trails. Have ridden out on flats a couple of times without any issues other than it's slow. Much faster than pushing the bike, however.

In cooler weather the rubber supports the rear pretty well even less any air pressure. The front flaps and tugs at the handlebars a bit. Manageable if you're careful.

Having skills is always a good idea. So hats off to those that can deal with trail side repairs. Be safe.


Perhaps one of the benefits of the fairly light weight XT. The flats I've witnessed were on bigger (400-650cc) bikes and they got ugly pretty fast. It chewed up the tires pretty bad, they weren't useable.
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 12/16/16 04:18 PM

The Kenda rear tire is pretty heavy in the side walls. Helps a bit. Bike weighs around 270 Lbs. I think for long haul riding one should be prepared to change flats. Or go for the Mousse Tubes which are expensive. Not sure how one seats the bead with these. After changing a tire, I usually need about 40 PSI to seat the bead properly with some bouncing of the tire on the floor. Then I air down to 12-15 PSI for trail riding.
Posted by: #brer15

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/02/17 02:07 AM

I have never had a problem getting the rear tire to seat. But for some reason the front tire is more difficult for me. I just changed my tires a couple of months ago, and as I am typing this now the front is still not seated properly. I can get it almost there, with just one small area where the "seating line" is not straight, off by about 3 or 4mm. I was just going to wait until spring and ride it a little as is, hoping that will stretch the tire just a bit. And then just breaking the bead again and starting over. Turns out I'm going to need another rotor any way, so I will do both at the same time.
Posted by: peejman

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/02/17 02:35 AM

Could be a bad/bent spot in the rim making the bead not want to seat. Lube the bead good with heavy soapy water, air it up to 40 psi or so and bounce it pretty hard, and it should pop into place.
Posted by: patuca

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/02/17 03:09 AM

I think peejman might have it. The chances are the rim is bent if the bead won't set just at one point.

If you hit a pothole or a curb hard the tire will compress into the rim bending the beads outwards and making the rim wider and it might change the rolling radius slighty too.

Prop the front up and spin it with a chalk or pencil held as an indicator and check for a bulge in the bead on both sides. If the bump in the wheel is symetrical (the same on both sides) you can drop the air pressure and use a G-clamp to clamp the rim and compress it together.

This will cure the rim being too wide although it might not help any radial distortion but as long as it isn't severe enough to distort the tire and the tread spins true it's not a major problem.

My old bike has a few of those too....

patuca
Posted by: Beaker

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/02/17 10:19 PM

I used Windex as a lube on my street bike when I changed the tires. It's still a tough job. Heated rubber helps; I put the tires in a clear plastic bag and left them in the sun a bit.
Posted by: #brer15

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/02/17 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: peejman
Could be a bad/bent spot in the rim making the bead not want to seat. Lube the bead good with heavy soapy water, air it up to 40 psi or so and bounce it pretty hard, and it should pop into place.
The rim is not bent. I have had this problem on this rim before, the first time I put a replacement on it. This time is the third replacement (fourth tire). I have already used plenty of lube (spray can tire lube), inflated to 55 psi, was afraid to go any higher, and have bounced the tire like a basket ball. The only thing I did different the first time and this time, is I rode it around for a while, and then just broke the bead again and redid. So I will just try that again, I will just wait until spring, it must have been summer the first time it happened, based on the mileage I changed it at. So maybe it is the cooler temps making this time a little harder. Thanks for the input.
Posted by: peejman

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/03/17 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: #brer15
The rim is not bent. I have had this problem on this rim before, the first time I put a replacement on it. This time is the third replacement (fourth tire). I have already used plenty of lube (spray can tire lube), inflated to 55 psi, was afraid to go any higher, and have bounced the tire like a basket ball. The only thing I did different the first time and this time, is I rode it around for a while, and then just broke the bead again and redid. So I will just try that again, I will just wait until spring, it must have been summer the first time it happened, based on the mileage I changed it at. So maybe it is the cooler temps making this time a little harder. Thanks for the input.


If it's done this before then it's likely not a problem with the tires. Does it not seat in the same spot on the rim every time? You could put a piece of tape on the spokes where it won't seat, break the bead, rotate the tire at bit, and try again. If it still doesn't seat in the same spot, there is something going on with the rim there. You could hold a straight edge against the rim to help see if there's a small area where it's bent. It also helps to for the tire to be warm, leave it out in the sun for a while, or hit the offending spot with a hair dryer.
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/04/17 04:56 PM

You may want to set the tire horizontal on a flat surface. Set your rim on top of the tire aligning it center to center by making the overhanging margin even. The tire should track with the rim perfectly all the way around. This might reveal a misalignment. IE something not perfectly round. Good luck.
Posted by: #brer15

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 01/07/17 12:09 AM

It gave me this problem the first time I replaced the tire. Gave me no problem the second time I replaced the tire. Now it is giving me the same problem the third time I'm replacing the tire. I'm real confident the rim is not bent, looks straight when spinning the rim without the tire on it, all the spokes sound good. Its just me. I'm going to be taking every ones advice and wait until it is warm. The hair drier sounds like a good idea also, may try that. Need to wait until I get another rotor anyway, so I can change that at the same time. Thanks, I will let you know how it goes.
Posted by: #brer15

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 04/16/17 10:56 AM

Got the new after market rotor a while back. Installed it and was able to get the tire to seat, using a hair drier, as peejman suggested. Thanks
Posted by: Muniac

Re: Operaflute tire change? (stop laughing) - 04/16/17 05:57 PM

Hot rubber certainly helps. I let the tires sit in the sun around here. Works nice!